Why does struggling for something make it more satisfying? And why can getting what you want leave you feeling flat? In this episode, I sit down with Arthur Brooks, one of the world’s leading voices on the science of happiness, for a conversation that might change how you feel about your life.

Arthur is a professor at Vanderbilt University, senior fellow of Harvard Business School and bestselling author of multiple books, including new title, The Meaning Of Your Life. He walked away from a successful career when he realised that despite a happy marriage, strong faith and good income, he struggled to feel happy. That personal reckoning led him to years of research into what really makes people thrive – and in this conversation, he shares the framework he developed to explain it.

Using an analogy from nutrition science, Arthur describes happiness as requiring three macronutrients: enjoyment, satisfaction and meaning. We talk about why so many high achievers get the first one wrong. Suffering and struggle, he says, aren’t obstacles to a fulfilling life but essential ingredients of it – hence removing all friction from our lives can leave us feeling empty rather than content.

We also get into goals, and why reaching them tends not to deliver the lasting happiness we expect. Arthur calls this the arrival fallacy, and understanding might change how you approach your next big challenge.

On relationships, Arthur shares research showing that the healthiest marriages are not the ones with the least conflict, but the ones with the most honesty. We talk frankly about what that has looked like in our own marriages, what we can all learn from our parents when it comes to happiness, and the best (and easiest) way to send a positive message to our children. Arthur also shares what he’s learned about presence, faith and love from his relationship and his daily practices.

We explore the difference between solitude and loneliness and how levels of social connection can be individual. And I hope you’ll pay attention to the section on why leisure needs to be treated as seriously as work.

This is a warm, honest and personal conversation with someone who’s spent decades studying happiness – but who’s candid about how hard he’s worked to feel it himself. By reframing happiness as a direction not a destination, I think it could be a life-changing listen for you.